Composting plastic: Sustainability and Climate Change (2)

By: Dr. Ricky Rood , 05:33 AM GMT on Kolovoz 29, 2011

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Composting plastic: Sustainability and Climate Change (2)

It has been a challenge in the realm of WU’s climate change blogger. Sick computer, and on Tuesday I was giving a talk at the Climate Program Office when the great D.C. Earthquake came. It was a webinar, and, within a minute, savvy scientists were reporting, “5.9, Mineral, Virginia.” The earthquake, which I had successfully identified in my talk, eliminating both “train” and “terrorist attack,” led to a natural separation of those who went to doorways in the interior of the building and those who went to the large picture window and said, “cool, all the buildings are shaking.” This was followed by building evacuation, and a typical D.C. response of gridlock and people walking away from wherever they were, with perhaps, the assumption that wherever they were walking to was safer. Considering all of the fallen stones and bricks, it is quite fortunate that people were not seriously injured.

This was, of course, followed by the march of Hurricane Irene up the coast, which leads to a certain type of hurricane-anticipation hysteria. I believe that the Weather Channel and CNN amplified this hysteria with exaggerated and unwarranted statements of the lack of historical precedents for such a storm. There is perhaps an over reporting of people on beaches in a spot light saying, “It is only going to get worse.” Is this the way to get people to take these storms seriously? Anyway, the storm came ashore near my old stomping grounds on the Neuse River where I hear there were nearly 8 foot surges. This was at the end of the funnel, and it is the funneling of water up the creeks that make for the greatest flooding. It will be another billion dollar storm.

Still … I have started this blog three times and my sick computer has destroyed it. I want to get back to sustainability, composting, and those plastic cups.

Let me start by saying that I recycle. I will toss plastic cups in my luggage to take them to a place that will recycle, say, number 6 plastics. My father had me separating metals and pulling nails from miles of lumber in the 1960s for reuse. That said, I have been confused by corn-plastic, compostable plastic cups. If you take one of these cups and put it in your compost heap, well, it doesn’t compost. If you think about plastics and plastic making, then you’re not really sure what it might compost into. So you call and ask about this, and they say they were designed for commercial composting facilities, which operate at high temperature in carefully controlled environments. Then you find out that your municipality does not do such composting, so you are left with a cup that can’t be recycled, will not be composted, and to a naïve person like me seems like garbage. It’s garbage, when it could have been a recyclable number 1 plastic cup. This opens up all sorts of opportunities for greenwashing and the pursuit of irritating, good-intentioned, ineffective environmental policies and practices.

Irritating: I have been on the edge of a couple of zero-waste events in the last couple of years. One of the places where cities and counties exercise zero-waste policies is street festivals and county fairs. These are often places where there are traveling vendors, and a mix of activities that range from demolition derbies to face painting to costumed goats and prized cattle. There is eating of odd food. The point, there are a lot of people that are perhaps, not of the zero-waste jurisdiction or culture. One source of tension is those plastic cups. Let’s say they cost a little more, but let’s assume that if the event is in a place that supports zero-waste events, then people will pay a little more for their lemonade. The requirement to use compostable cups has some practical issues. They might not fit lemonade making equipment; they don’t stand up to heat; they require special stocking. They challenge some people’s view that the market price should determine what they choose. And, given where I started above, that they don’t seem so compostable, they challenge sensibilities. That list looks a lot like the range of responses to addressing the climate-change problem.

Sustainability: Sustainability is about a lot more than climate change. It is about landfills and soil management and energy use and all of those resources that we need to support ourselves. So in that sense, climate change, or let’s be precise, the emission of carbon dioxide, is a subset of sustainability. There are a lot of things that can be done in the spirit of sustainability that don’t address the emissions of carbon dioxide. For example, if you focus on energy security, some would argue that coal would address our needs long enough to get by, and hence would argue that coal is part of a sustainable energy policy – same with tar sands. Both coal and tar sands contribute to more and more carbon dioxide emissions; hence, they are in the long run agents that will lead to, for example, several meters of sea level rise. There are many initiatives in the efforts to promote sustainability, that don’t obviously help climate change. (Think about the locally grown apple kept in refrigeration for 8 months versus the apple from Australia that is not stored as long. Think about the electric car that charges up from the coal power plant.)

Composting: I’ve composted for years – let me restate that, I have composted vegetative matter for years. As a kid we did not call it composting, but we piled up mountains of leaves inside of a large fenced area and then used it gardening. It makes sense to a gardener, but it also makes sense to someone whose father was the mayor of a town and challenged with what to do with a lot of leaves and not really wanting to promote backyard bonfires on dry October days. So composting leaves and garden waste makes intuitive sense, but what about prescribed policies on composting of food waste and yard waste and, maybe, scraps of lumber? Again, if you are a city then you want to control the amount of garbage you have to deal with. Garbage is expensive – buying land, transporting it, burying it – so you start to think about what might composting do for my garbage problem. There are several ways that that leads to plastic, because plastic has infiltrated everything we do, and it lasts practically forever. Also, it comes from oil. In some sense, plastic is a lot like carbon dioxide. Perhaps thinking about plastics and waste plastic is a good way to think about carbon dioxide waste, because we can see plastic waste everywhere. But I digress.


This is a blog about climate, so let’s bring the composting and climate together. It is easy to make the casual argument that composting in your backyard is good for climate change. Or, at least, it might be. One of the climate benefits of composting in your backyard comes from not trucking the stuff away. So if you buy a gas-powered chipper or shredder, you’re likely to do away with that benefit. I’ve had a number of student projects looking at composting and climate change, especially composting food from cafeterias, and the answer is complicated. One of the big factors in the composting equation is transportation. If you have to ship the stuff many miles out of town, it’s not likely composting will help climate change. But if you can keep it nearby, have a good commercial-scale facility, and can start with a clean stream of compostable material it can help a lot. It helps a whole lot when you realize that if buried in a landfill, it usually makes methane. (To imagine how complex this gets, sometimes it is better to dump the waste in the sewer and let the sewage experts deal with it, and often, the best thing to do is to burn it for fuel. So it is not an easy calculation and decision.)

So back to those plastic cups. I try to be a responsible blogger so I did a little research. I hope I did enough research to not make a fool of myself. I put some links to articles down at the end of blog. I want to line up some conclusions, but, first, the observation that most of the work investigating plastics in waste streams that I found was coming from Northern Europe, China, and Africa. OK some conclusions. I was right that some of those plastic cups don’t break down in home composting. Home composting is simply not active enough to break down those cups. At best they become some sort of plastic sand. But other plastics and compressed papers break down pretty well even at home. In commercial composting, where there is a lot of stirring and a lot of biodegrading going on, they breakdown pretty well, and they don’t do anything bad to the compost. And at street festivals and fairs, if there are compostable cups, then when people throw away all of their eating stuff in the same garbage, which people are prone to do, then the compostable cups (and forks and plates) clean up the stream for the much larger mass of food waste. Therefore at big events, cafeterias, and restaurants, the compostable cups can have a large impact on waste management – but it does require an easy and visible and clearly marked place to put compostable garbage.

Above I said that zero-waste and compostable cups can challenge one’s sensibility. The effort I have gone through here is more effort than the average person is going to exert to worry about their garbage. I am sure that some of the people I know who find the zero-waste policy, perhaps, silly, would find that it makes sense when you think about the stream of compostable material made possible by compostable cups. But as often presented, in the absence of information, in the spirit of prescriptive policy that is “good” in some sense, it serves to discredit the whole culture of sustainability. It poses “good” and suggests that what others are doing is “bad.” And inevitably here in the good ol’ USA of 2011, it becomes a matter of politics, of culture.

But this is a blog on climate change. What about the compostable cups and climate change? So if the impact of the compostable cup on climate change is measured by its carbon footprint, then the difference between the compostable cup and old-fashioned plastic cup is hard to determine. If a locality is set up with a good commercial-grade composting facility that is not far away, then the impacts can be substantial. In one of my students’ projects, composting food waste from University of Michigan cafeterias was the equivalent of removing 100 cars from the road. In this situation, the compostable cup cleans up the compost stream and allows the food to be composted. But, in any case, what is best for the climate is to use metal utensils and washable plates, and to wash the dishes. And if a business or town hands out compostable cups WITHOUT a composting plan and facility, they mess up their recycling program as the cups get mixed into the recycling stream.

It’s never easy. I am often asked what individuals can do about climate change. It is “be efficient,” use compact fluorescents, composting and recycling can be good, insulate, insulate, insulate. Sometimes I say quit being an eco-tourist. In the end though, assuming we consume as we view our prerogative to consume, we must de-carbonize our energy. We must quit making so much of our stuff to be disposed. All of the little steps are important; they might raise our awareness; they might make us feel better about our consumption; they buy us a little time – maybe, but they cannot solve that big problem of burning coal, oil, and natural gas to supply our wealth. As long as we are not thinking about our energy use and our energy waste, we are not really addressing the zero-waste and sustainability issues of climate change.

r

Razza et al., Compostable Cutlery …

Song et al., Biodegradable and compostable plastics …

Hopewell et al., Plastics recycling …

Mohee and Unmar, Determining biodegradability …

Rockstrom et al., A safe operating space for humanity


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Quoting Birthmark:


Have you tried looking below 700 meters? These guys did. Guess what they found?

Link



Below 700 meters? You don't suppose water at that depth could be affected by undersea volcanoes or magma ejections? Besides differences in salinity, wouldn't warmer water at the surface tend to remain at the surface if it were warmed by the atmosphere (which in itself is difficult to believe that air could warm water)?
Member Since: Srpanj 5, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 403
Quoting JBastardi:
Another failed warmist prediction:

Link

Does your internet provider block your access to science sites? I ask--again--as I never see you post articles from anything but science denialist sites.
Member Since: Studeni 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 13508
Quoting Neapolitan:

Does your internet provider block your access to science sites? I ask as I never see you post articles from anything but science denialist sites.


The only ones in denial are those who share you religion.
Member Since: Srpanj 5, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 403
A remarkable new report was released today by the Climate Communication environmental group. It makes the following seemingly audacious but absolutely true statement:

"All weather events are now influenced by climate change because all weather now develops in a different environment than before."

I'll pause to let you think about that one for a moment, if you want.

The report--for which our own Dr. Jeff Masters is listed as an expert reviewer--basically states that CO2 and other greeenhouse gases are the steroids of weather. A few small examples:


--In 1950, record breaking hot weather days were as likely as cold ones. By 2000, they were twice as likely, and in 2011 they are three times more likely, so far. By the end of the century they will be 50 times more likely, Meehl says.

--With global warming's higher temperatures packing about 4% more water into the atmosphere, total average snow and rainfall has increased by about 7% in the past century, says the study. The amount of rain falling in the heaviest 1% of cloudbursts has increased 20%, leading to more flooding.

--Early snow melt, and more rain rather than snow, has led to water cycle changes in the western U.S. in river flow, winter air temperature, and snow pack from 1950 to 1999. The effects are up to 60% attributable to human influence.

At any rate, it's an extraordinary and eye-opening report. Anyone possessing a sufficient level of intellectual curiosity and honesty will find it very interesting.

Full Report
Member Since: Studeni 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 13508
Another failed warmist prediction:

Link
Member Since: Srpanj 5, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 403
Quoting JBastardi:
Where's the missing heat?

Link

Does your internet provider block your access to science sites? I ask as I never see you post articles from anything but science denialist sites.
Member Since: Studeni 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 13508
Quoting JBastardi:
Where's the missing heat?


Have you tried looking below 700 meters? These guys did. Guess what they found?

Link

Member Since: Posts: Comments:
I'm staring at Corn Cup now. The number 7 plus the fact they make it out of food is not my idea of good sustainable practices unless landfills and starving people are a good idea.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Where's the missing heat?

Link
Member Since: Srpanj 5, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 403
Quoting Ossqss:


No, not really.

This type of thing gets quietly swept under the carpet for it relates to the lack of any relevant measured changes to the Ozone over the time involved as anticipated per the Montreal Protocol. Just find the real data and you will see for yourself.

Don't make me bring up the Space Shuttle foam problem caused by such edicts.

It also provides perspective as to why the Kyoto protocol has recently been rejected by the major players. Just sayin Gnight >


But doesn't that make a certain amount of sense? If the effect is small or negligible, then those who aren't professionals in the field probably won't be very interested --unless there are applications elsewhere that are important.

As for the Montreal Protocol, I'm not terribly well versed in it or the entire ozone hole problem. It's interesting enough, but there are only so many hours in a day.

And good night to you.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting Birthmark:


Interesting, but unlikely to be very important in the larger scheme.


No, not really.

This type of thing gets quietly swept under the carpet for it relates to the lack of any relevant measured changes to the Ozone over the time involved as anticipated per the Montreal Protocol. Just find the real data and you will see for yourself.

Don't make me bring up the Space Shuttle foam problem caused by such edicts.

It also provides perspective as to why the Kyoto protocol has recently been rejected by the major players. Just sayin Gnight >

Member Since: Lipanj 12, 2005 Posts: 6 Comments: 8186
Quoting Ossqss:
177

Supplemental >>


Interesting, but unlikely to be very important in the larger scheme.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting JBastardi:


My fantasy? Looks like the release of these emails is his worst nightmare. Wonder what he's attempting to hide?

You are assuming a motivation for which you have no evidence. How do you know his stand isn't merely on principle?

But don't worry. I'm sure that there must be something in there that can be taken out of context, spun, and proclaimed "the death of AGW Theory."

Hey, it worked in Climategate, right? Oh...wait. No, it didn't.


Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting Ossqss:

Well looky here. I wondered why no mention of the response paper was evident here. Interesting read.

I believe we see a Science Slap Down coming one way or another, and sooner than one thinks.

This could get very interesting, No?

I like it and its healthy for everyone :)


The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly: My Initial Comments on the New Dessler 2011 Study
September 7th, 2011 by Roy W. Spencer, Ph. D.

Actually, what you see is Spencer playing make believe with numbers. I can tell because he's using a blog instead of publishing his critique of Dessler. ;)
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting JBastardi:
When the Univ. of VA finally relented (under court order) and agreed to release Dr. Mikey "Climategate" Mann's email, he still is attempting to hide the fraud. He hired two attys as a last-ditch resort.

Link

The Big Energy-funded witch hunt continues. Of course, Mann has been found guilty of nothing yet--and never will be. But that won't stop the foaming-at-the-mouth denialist throng armed with their pitchforks and torches...
Member Since: Studeni 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 13508
Quoting Ossqss:

Well looky here. I wondered why no mention of the response paper was evident here. Interesting read.

I believe we see a Science Slap Down coming one way or another, and sooner than one thinks.

This could get very interesting, No?

I like it and its healthy for everyone :)


The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly: My Initial Comments on the New Dessler 2011 Study
September 7th, 2011 by Roy W. Spencer, Ph. D.

Well, of course Spencer--the self-proclaimed non-elected "legislator"--is going to kick and fight and swear that he's right, and that scientists are stupid pathetic liars that know nowhere close to what he does. But he's lost every battle and the war; I'd say it's past time for him to let this one go and move on to his next false assumption...
Member Since: Studeni 8, 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 13508
Quoting Ossqss:
177

Supplemental >>

http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070926/full/44938 2a.html


181,

Yep, right next to Tunnels :)


LOL! You keep thinking that pal I have proof they work so it is no longer science fiction.
Member Since: Siječanj 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 20400
177

Supplemental >>

http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070926/full/44938 2a.html


181,

Yep, right next to Tunnels :)
Member Since: Lipanj 12, 2005 Posts: 6 Comments: 8186
Quoting Ossqss:

Well looky here. I wondered why no mention of the response paper was evident here. Interesting read.

I believe we see a Science Slap Down coming one way or another, and sooner than one thinks.

This could get very interesting, No?

I like it and its healthy for everyone :)


The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly: My Initial Comments on the New Dessler 2011 Study
September 7th, 2011 by Roy W. Spencer, Ph. D.


Located in the science fiction section at your local book store.
Member Since: Siječanj 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 20400

Well looky here. I wondered why no mention of the response paper was evident here. Interesting read.

I believe we see a Science Slap Down coming one way or another, and sooner than one thinks.

This could get very interesting, No?

I like it and its healthy for everyone :)


The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly: My Initial Comments on the New Dessler 2011 Study
September 7th, 2011 by Roy W. Spencer, Ph. D.
Member Since: Lipanj 12, 2005 Posts: 6 Comments: 8186
Quoting iceagecoming:
Sep 7, 2011 5:47pm
Al Gore Criticizes Obama on the Environment

Saying that the president “bowed to pressure from polluters,” Al Gore today joined other environmentalists who reacted strongly against the news that President Obama has withdrawn smog standards submitted by his own EPA administrator.

In a statement released on the eve of a three-day holiday weekend last Friday, the president announced that while his administration has taken “some of the strongest actions since the enactment of the Clean Air Act” to protect the environment, he had decided to ask EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson to withdraw the draft Ozone National Ambient Standards.

In a statement released today Al Gore said that the President’s action will lead to “increased medical bills for seniors with lung disease, more children developing asthma and the continued degradation of our air quality.”

Lisa Heinzerling, the EPA’s former Associate Administrator of Office Policy under the Obama administration, has called the move “terribly bad news, and terribly bad policy.” Heinzerling, who has returned to teaching at Georgetown University, wrote a blog Friday saying the reason Obama used to withdraw the standards was “unlawful.” The Supreme Court, she wrote, “has unequivocally held that the Clean Air Act forbids the consideration of economic costs in setting the NAAQS [National Ambient Air Quality Standard].”

In his statement President Obama said he has “continued to underscore the importance of reducing regulatory burdens and regulatory uncertainty, particularly as our economy continues to recover.” He said work is underway that will result in the reconsideration of the ozone standard in 2013. “Ultimately,” he said, “I did not support asking state and local governments to begin implementing a new standard that will soon be reconsidered.”

Ken Cook, president of the Environmental Working Group, told ABC’s Jim Sciutto: “This decision is a major betrayal of the president’s base and the values he ran on. It was a cornerstone of the administration’s environmental agenda, which they just tossed off the side like ballast from a boat.”


Link

By TIM MAK | 9/7/11 12:09 PM EDT

President Barack Obama’s base is showing some of the lowest approval ratings for his policies since he was elected in 2008, says a new poll.

Among those who voted for Obama, 70 percent now support his handling of the economy, according to a Washington Post-ABC News poll released Tuesday. That’s down from 79 percent in October 2010.

Looking only at those who are registered Democrats, only 60 percent approve of the president’s handling of the economy, a substantial drop from the 74 percent who backed him in March. Only 32 percent of Democrats currently believe that the country is headed in the right direction, the poll found.

Obama also performed relatively poorly among self-identified liberals - 69 percent approve of the job he is doing as president, which ties a record low from July 2011.

Another dramatic change is that only 47 percent percent of voters under 30 years of age approved of the president’s overall job performance, the first time this figure has dropped below 50 percent since his election. This group supported Obama by around two-to-one in 2008.

These numbers come amid concerns from liberals that the president’s policies have diverged from their hopes

Link





Sounds like Hope and Change!


No need to worry about any of that anymore. My Tunnels fix all that!

Now Patent Pending!

Member Since: Siječanj 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 20400
Yes which is why it's so infuriating you deniers constantly misinterpret them.
Jeffrey Pierce, an atmospheric scientist at Dalhousie University in Canada, however, is more cautious. Modelling carried out by his group shows that a 10%u201320% variation in atmospheric-ion concentrations, roughly the variation associated with solar storms or across a solar cycle, produces less than a 1% change in the concentration of cloud condensation nuclei, with the diminishing returns resulting from more aerosols having to share a given quantity of molecular raw material and aerosols merging with one another. "This change is very likely too small to explain the effect on clouds reported by Svensmark," he says. "We must continue to explore other potential physical connections between cosmic rays and clouds."

Kirkby shares Pierce's caution. He argues that CLOUD's results "say nothing about cosmic-ray effects on clouds" because the aerosols produced in the experiment are far too small to seed clouds. But he adds that the collaboration will have some "interesting new results" to present later this year regarding the role of organic molecules in aerosol formation. "What is needed now to settle this question are precise, quantitative measurements," he adds.

Link
Doesn't look like a smoking gun to me does it to you?


Edit: This was in reply to martinitony
Member Since: Kolovoz 9, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 394
Sep 7, 2011 5:47pm
Al Gore Criticizes Obama on the Environment

Saying that the president “bowed to pressure from polluters,” Al Gore today joined other environmentalists who reacted strongly against the news that President Obama has withdrawn smog standards submitted by his own EPA administrator.

In a statement released on the eve of a three-day holiday weekend last Friday, the president announced that while his administration has taken “some of the strongest actions since the enactment of the Clean Air Act” to protect the environment, he had decided to ask EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson to withdraw the draft Ozone National Ambient Standards.

In a statement released today Al Gore said that the President’s action will lead to “increased medical bills for seniors with lung disease, more children developing asthma and the continued degradation of our air quality.”

Lisa Heinzerling, the EPA’s former Associate Administrator of Office Policy under the Obama administration, has called the move “terribly bad news, and terribly bad policy.” Heinzerling, who has returned to teaching at Georgetown University, wrote a blog Friday saying the reason Obama used to withdraw the standards was “unlawful.” The Supreme Court, she wrote, “has unequivocally held that the Clean Air Act forbids the consideration of economic costs in setting the NAAQS [National Ambient Air Quality Standard].”

In his statement President Obama said he has “continued to underscore the importance of reducing regulatory burdens and regulatory uncertainty, particularly as our economy continues to recover.” He said work is underway that will result in the reconsideration of the ozone standard in 2013. “Ultimately,” he said, “I did not support asking state and local governments to begin implementing a new standard that will soon be reconsidered.”

Ken Cook, president of the Environmental Working Group, told ABC’s Jim Sciutto: “This decision is a major betrayal of the president’s base and the values he ran on. It was a cornerstone of the administration’s environmental agenda, which they just tossed off the side like ballast from a boat.”


Link

By TIM MAK | 9/7/11 12:09 PM EDT

President Barack Obama’s base is showing some of the lowest approval ratings for his policies since he was elected in 2008, says a new poll.

Among those who voted for Obama, 70 percent now support his handling of the economy, according to a Washington Post-ABC News poll released Tuesday. That’s down from 79 percent in October 2010.

Looking only at those who are registered Democrats, only 60 percent approve of the president’s handling of the economy, a substantial drop from the 74 percent who backed him in March. Only 32 percent of Democrats currently believe that the country is headed in the right direction, the poll found.

Obama also performed relatively poorly among self-identified liberals - 69 percent approve of the job he is doing as president, which ties a record low from July 2011.

Another dramatic change is that only 47 percent percent of voters under 30 years of age approved of the president’s overall job performance, the first time this figure has dropped below 50 percent since his election. This group supported Obama by around two-to-one in 2008.

These numbers come amid concerns from liberals that the president’s policies have diverged from their hopes

Link





Sounds like Hope and Change!
Member Since: Siječanj 27, 2009 Posts: 23 Comments: 1061
Quoting JBastardi:


My fantasy? Looks like the release of these emails is his worst nightmare. Wonder what he's attempting to hide?


Must be another conspiracy! LOL!
Member Since: Siječanj 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 20400
Quoting Birthmark:


Enjoy your fantasy. That's what they're for, after all.


My fantasy? Looks like the release of these emails is his worst nightmare. Wonder what he's attempting to hide?
Member Since: Srpanj 5, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 403
Quoting Ossqss:
From here http://spaceweather.com/

"X-flares of Solar Cycle 24: There have been only a small number of X-flares since the beginning of new Solar Cycle 24. Here is a complete list so far: Feb. 15, 2011 (X2), March 9, 2011 (X1), Aug. 9, 2011 (X7), Sept. 6, 2011 (X2). Before these four, the previous X-flare occured on Dec.14, 2006, (X1) during old Solar Cycle 23."

Just got an alert on another about an hour ago.


162, ya think? It can't have anything to do with the sun. The models say so ......... must be something invisible they are missing :)



L8R >>


WOW! With all those flares our planet should be boiling by now!
Member Since: Siječanj 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 20400
Quoting JBastardi:
When the Univ. of VA finally relented (under court order) and agreed to release Dr. Mikey "Climategate" Mann's email, he still is attempting to hide the fraud. He hired two attys as a last-ditch resort.

Link


Enjoy your fantasy. That's what they're for, after all.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
From here http://spaceweather.com/

"X-flares of Solar Cycle 24: There have been only a small number of X-flares since the beginning of new Solar Cycle 24. Here is a complete list so far: Feb. 15, 2011 (X2), March 9, 2011 (X1), Aug. 9, 2011 (X7), Sept. 6, 2011 (X2). Before these four, the previous X-flare occured on Dec.14, 2006, (X1) during old Solar Cycle 23."

Just got an alert on another about an hour ago.


162, ya think? It can't have anything to do with the sun. The models say so ......... must be something invisible they are missing :)



L8R >>
Member Since: Lipanj 12, 2005 Posts: 6 Comments: 8186
Quoting martinitony:
Very Interesting

I guess Dr. Rood is really into those computer models and this would be one of those things that would be difficult to accept after so much certainty.

Not really interesting. It's the usual gang of denialists, spinning for all their worth. Many of these brave denialists fought for many long years to "prove" that there is no (or very little) link between smoking and cancer.

Nice bunch, eh? Or maybe they just enjoy being wrong. Takes all kinds.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
Quoting JBastardi:
A great article describing the corruption of science in the name of politics:

Link


I kept waiting for that article to say something substantive. If it gets around to doing so (in a Part II, III,...) do let me know so that I can address it.

TIA
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
I trend toward NOAA and Science when it comes to Climate Change.

Wattsupwittdat just dosent feel up to snuff for me...as source material.


And AMS certified Muscle Men turn me way off.

"Tanned and shaved" especially.

But dats jus me.
Member Since: Posts: Comments:
When the Univ. of VA finally relented (under court order) and agreed to release Dr. Mikey "Climategate" Mann's email, he still is attempting to hide the fraud. He hired two attys as a last-ditch resort.

Link
Member Since: Srpanj 5, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 403
Quoting martinitony:


That's a good response Cyclone. Very thoughtful.


A big conspiracy.LOL!
Member Since: Siječanj 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 20400
Quoting cyclonebuster:


That's a good response Cyclone. Very thoughtful.
Member Since: Srpanj 29, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 970
Quoting AlwaysThinkin:


Or he could be a real scientist who reads the raw data rather than something spewed up on a denialist blog on a newspaper site. You never know.


Even your moniker is BS. Facts are facts.
Member Since: Srpanj 29, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 970
Quoting martinitony:
Very Interesting

I guess Dr. Rood is really into those computer models and this would be one of those things that would be difficult to accept after so much certain
Quoting martinitony:
Very Interesting

I guess Dr. Rood is really into those computer models and this would be one of those things that would be difficult to accept after so much certainty.


POPPYCOCK!
Member Since: Siječanj 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 20400
Quoting martinitony:
Very Interesting

I guess Dr. Rood is really into those computer models and this would be one of those things that would be difficult to accept after so much certainty.


Or he could be a real scientist who reads the raw data rather than something spewed up on a denialist blog on a newspaper site. You never know.
Member Since: Kolovoz 9, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 394
Very Interesting

I guess Dr. Rood is really into those computer models and this would be one of those things that would be difficult to accept after so much certainty.
Member Since: Srpanj 29, 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 970
Quoting JBastardi:
A great article describing the corruption of science in the name of politics:

Link


Spencers science fiction is quite amusing.
Member Since: Siječanj 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 20400
A great article describing the corruption of science in the name of politics:

Link
Member Since: Srpanj 5, 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 403
Quoting yonzabam:


You are one eccentric guy, mr cyclonebuster. But, hey! This is the Internet. You're allowed to be eccentric.


Eccentricity is very dangerous to steam turbines it can cause very bad vibrations and can damage one severely. One would never roll a steam turbine off of turning gear with out of specification eccentricity for this reason.
Member Since: Siječanj 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 20400
Quoting cyclonebuster:

OUCH!



You are one eccentric guy, mr cyclonebuster. But, hey! This is the Internet. You're allowed to be eccentric.
Member Since: Srpanj 20, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 2918

OUCH!

Member Since: Siječanj 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 20400
Quoting PurpleDrank:


Are you saying the entire world's population and the other 6 continents are going to somehow be compensated by northern hemisphere ice melting in 75 years? I thought it was 30 years until the water world scenario, 10 years ago.

You all should just stick with trying to decrease the oil industry's profits for now...every prophetic climate science prediction has wound up in the bad egg lot so far.

Is it denial when every prediction turns out dead wrong?


No, I am saying that you may have found the future's last vestige of a cooler climate that is below 10,000 feet, in another 75 years. Should the penguins have any intelligence, they will deny us any rights. ;-)
Member Since: Kolovoz 24, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 4737
Quoting PurpleDrank:


Are you saying the entire world's population and the other 6 continents are going to somehow be compensated by northern hemisphere ice melting in 75 years? I thought it was 30 years until the water world scenario, 10 years ago.

You all should just stick with trying to decrease the oil industry's profits for now...every prophetic climate science prediction has wound up in the bad egg lot so far.

Is it denial when every prediction turns out dead wrong?


Really? Scientists were predicting a 'Waterworld' scenario in 30 years just 10 years ago? Got any refs for that?

You lot just get crazier. I predict psychiatrists will have a name for you in 10 years.
Member Since: Srpanj 20, 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 2918
Quoting Some1Has2BtheRookie:


That is great news, Drank. Now all we have to do is to see if 7,000,000,000 people will fit on Antarctica in about 75 years from now.


Are you saying the entire world's population and the other 6 continents are going to somehow be compensated by northern hemisphere ice melting in 75 years? I thought it was 30 years until the water world scenario, 10 years ago.

You all should just stick with trying to decrease the oil industry's profits for now...every prophetic climate science prediction has wound up in the bad egg lot so far.

Is it denial when every prediction turns out dead wrong?
Member Since: Posts: Comments:

OUCH!

Member Since: Siječanj 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 20400


OUCH!

Member Since: Siječanj 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 20400
Anyone trend just the ice melting in Antarctica over water and not the land during the seasons? How does that trend look since 1979?
Member Since: Siječanj 2, 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 20400
Quoting PurpleDrank:



That is great news, Drank. Now all we have to do is to see if 7,000,000,000 people will fit on Antarctica in about 75 years from now.
Member Since: Kolovoz 24, 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 4737

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About RickyRood

I'm a professor at U Michigan and lead a course on climate change problem solving. These articles often come from and contribute to the course.